jonghj

iTrader: (1)

I am trying to get new brake system.

Is Stoptech better than Brembo?

Stoptech complete kit cost about $4500
and New Brembo cost about $3300 (front only, but not sure).

which is better.

thanks

lancerjs

The Stoptech brake kit is engineered for the stock master cylinder. If you were to purchase the Brembo kit you would find that the piston volume is greater than stock this will give you a longer pedal and a change in brake bias. Stoptech has designed thier system to give a nice firm pedal as well as proper brake bias. They do this by building each caliper to be application specifac, using caefully selected piston sizes to achieve the desired results. Stoptech offers both front only kits and four wheel kits.

MY350Z.COM

iTrader: (2)

If you can find a used "Track" model Brembos, that would be the best way to go IMHO, some people sell them for really cheap.

lancerjs

The option of puchasing used Track model Brembos is going to be the least expensive to start but if you are purchasing bigger brakes for performance the Stoptechs offer greater pad volume, larger cooler running rotors and lower price on later replacement of rotors and pads. This would be of greatest concern if you are using this car on the track.

Blue Liquid

lancerjs is correct. There are some very interesting threads relating to these two manufacturers. Do a search for both and you'll see. Even if the Brembos were the same price, I'd still go with Stoptech since it is optimized specifically for my car, not a "one size fits all" approach such as Brembo uses. Now, the track model Brembos are obviously matched for the car, but like lancerjs said, they are 12.9 inches vs the 13.2 inches for the smaller of the two Stoptech kits.

350on19inchVolk

Where do you guys get you information????

lancerjs - Brembo has the largest selection of calipers out there. What do you mean by "one size fits all aproach"????
All Brembo kits are engineered aroun the factory master cylinder and are appropriate for the factory ABS. Yes Stoptech has the ability to choose piston sizes per vehicle, but how does that make it better??

I konow johnghj asked a very opinionated question but he deserves real facts to help make his decision.

I'm not going to bash Stoptech but the quality doesn't even compare to Brembo. Some of therr ideas are cool but its more of a gimick rather that engineered and proven technology. Brembo has based its history on enginereed and race proven technology. If Stoptech was better then why is it not on Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin or MBZ from the factory???? If it is better why did Nissan, Ford, Infinity, Mitsubishi, Subaru choose to use Brembo as an upgraded option.

I would definitely choose Brembo, even with the price diference.
The Stoptech front only kit is $1995.
The Brembo front only kit is $2795.
I would gladly pay the extra money for something that is made it Italy with the highest TUV rating available rather than an "lookalike" kit from Taiwan. If I wanted to save money and get a Taiwaneese Immitation and save money I'd buy Rotora for $1195.

Brembo is the real deal. I have a friend who was sponsored by Stoptech with his Audi S4. He ran there 13.1" ST40 kit for 6 months. He is a driving instructor and does some SCCA racing and Autocross. He ran Stoptech because he believed there hype and he got his kit for virtually nothing. I just went with him to Brembo to order his front kit to replace Stoptechs kit. He had numerous problems with pad alignment (stoptech reccomendation was to shave the pad), rotor vibration(probably from the pad problem), caliper lockup (caused an accident on the track that shoulv'e been avoided ($1800damage), and poor modulation. The S4 kit is supposed to be there best design. Stoptech started making a name for them selves in the Audi/VW market. If the dont have a solid kit for the S4 why would any other kit be better.

I might sound bitter but I'm just being honest.
Believe me when I say that sometimes saving a little money in the beginning may not be woth the headache in the end. My friend basically paid for his kit with that accident. Now he's paying more to get Brembo.

Do it right the first time or dont do it at all.

CanAmBob

lancerjs - Brembo has the largest selection of calipers out there. What do you mean by "one size fits all aproach"????

What we mean here is that until StopTech entered the brake upgrade market. Brake upgrade Caliper piston sizes were limited to a few calipers. For example Brembo used the Lotus Elise caliper for 328x28 rotors and the F40 or F50 for 332 rotors and The F50 caliper for 355 rotors. If your appication called for a 355 rotor you had one piston size available 40-44. StopTech has 15. Yes Brembo makes lots of OE calipers but they are not used in these general upgrade applications.

All Brembo kits are engineered aroun the factory master cylinder and are appropriate for the factory ABS. Yes Stoptech has the ability to choose piston sizes per vehicle, but how does that make it better??

If Brembo only supplies one piston size are you saying that one size is appropriate for all 355 rotor applications? Take a look at all the applications serviced by Brembo 355 rotors, they have many different master cylinder sizes as there are vehicles. By StopTech sizing the pistons to create the proper front to rear brake torque ratios we achieve optimum brake balance or brake bias. This optimum front to rear brake torque gives the best stopping distances. As an Example the early Brembo S4 355 kits had only the F50 with 40-44 pistons this resulted in more front brake torque than stock. Our kit using 36-40 piston was better balanced and now I am told Brembo is using this size--HMMM I guess we were right! This comment also means that Brembo now has another caliper to use on the 355 rotor. Ok now they have 2 we have 15.

In an up coming major magazine article we had a 350Z stop in 98 feet 60-0 with our 4 wheel kit. This spectacular distance was the result of our Brake tuning and design. You as 350Z owners get the benefit of this advanced tuning.

If Stoptech was better then why is it not on Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin or MBZ from the factory???? If it is better why did Nissan, Ford, Infinity, Mitsubishi, Subaru choose to use Brembo as an upgraded option.

We are supplying a major division of one of the top Japanese companies and beat out other well known companies for this contract. We are new company give us time we will have more OE business in the future.

I would gladly pay the extra money for something that is made it Italy with the highest TUV rating available rather than an "lookalike" kit from Taiwan.

Our brake kits are not made in Taiwan. A large portion of StopTech brake upgrades are made in Torrance California. Our rotors are manufactured in Italy by the oldest rotor foundry in Italy, Pilenga. Hats, brackets and brake lines and caliper machining is done in Torrance.

Our caliper castings are made by a major offshore firm and now incorporate Squeeze forge technology using a state of the art Toshiba Squeeze forge machine.

We now have superior casting technology that is equal or superior to any of the calipers sold in the brake upgrade market.

I have a friend who was sponsored by Stoptech with his Audi S4. He ran there 13.1" ST40 kit for 6 months. He is a driving instructor and does some SCCA racing and Autocross. He ran Stoptech because he believed there hype and he got his kit for virtually nothing. I just went with him to Brembo to order his front kit to replace Stoptechs kit. He had numerous problems with pad alignment (stoptech reccomendation was to shave the pad), rotor vibration(probably from the pad problem), caliper lockup (caused an accident on the track that shoulv'e been avoided ($1800damage), and poor modulation. The S4 kit is supposed to be there best design.

Everyone at StopTech is concerned anytime we hear about customer complaints. This customer you describe is one of the fastest S4 club racers in Southern California and is seriously pushing his S4 on the track. His version of events is much different than yours and I suggest you recheck your data. We are going to track with him to try and duplicate the circumstances of his complaint. BTW since his complaint occurs only during trail braking, we believe the S4 traction control or ABS could be at fault or it could be a platform issue. If it is a platform issue we should be able to duplicate the problem with a stock S4 brake system on his vehicle. In any event we will get to the bottom of his problem even if is not the fault of our components.

Don Istook races his S4 in Grand Am with the same set up that your friend runs and is estatic with our performance versus his early setup that used an Audi S8 caliper with the incorrect piston sizes.

As far as the real deal goes, in brake tuning we are the real deal. in the latest Car and Driver 4 cylinder shoot out our brakes were the choice of 4 out of 9 tuners in the front wheel drive catogory. The StopTech shod Mini Cooper had the best front wheel 130-0 stopping distance in the event.

Do it right the first time or dont do it at all. 350on19 So does this mean that if they first shipped 40-44 pistons on a S4 355 kit and now ship 36-40 that they should follow your advice?
Enquiring minds want to know?


Thanks for listening

Bob Lee
StopTech LLC

GaryK

Bob, good info, I'm glad you stepped in here. I haven't had the opportunity to use Stoptech brakes yet, but I will definitely be trying them in the future. Without the numerous piston size options, there is no way other brake alternatives can get the pedal feel and brake bias right without changing master cylinders...unless the optimum piston size just happens to be one of the few they offer. I have heard all good and no bad from users of Stoptech brakes....


BTW, to answer the original question, I would go with the Stoptech. My z is just a daily driver, but if I do end up with a brake upgrade it will be Stoptech without a doubt. I just recently ordered a Brembo kit for a race car I'm building, but only because the Stoptech kit for that car wasn't out yet....should have waited just a little longer.

Audito350Z

iTrader: (1)

I used Stoptechs 332x32 front kit on my Audi A4 for two years. In that time I'd guess I attended 15 track events and one Audi Quattro Challenge event. The Stoptechs never failed.

I bought a Track model 350Z, so I have the Brembos right now. As soon as I reach the limits of the Brembos, I will upgrade to the 4-wheel Stoptech set up.

Another great thing about Stoptech is their customer service. I have called up their shop and spoken with Bob and Matt on numerous occasions about all manner of things brake-related.

Great product, it works, it's proven and superb customer service.... Brembo and AP better watch their backs!!!

Peter Haas

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

Bob, shouldn't you be working on something else, and leave the message board defense to someone younger, with less managerial duties. J/K

Those are some serious accusations though...whew. It is comforting to see that StopTech has such a dedication to customer service and resolving any issues.

350on19inchVolk

CanAmBob,

You shouldv'e been a lawyer.

You just responded to every comment or question like a lawyer would. You never addressed the actual point.

I would love to see Brembo's input on this thread. I know my response was somewhat opinionated (obviously yours was too since you own Stoptech) but I based my response on what I saw and heard from both companies.

Brembo stated that they always utilized the many caliper options they had and that your "Specific Piston Sizes" is just an overmarketed sales pitch that has not been addressed until now.

I respect your company and your ideas. I never doubted that your brake kit works. Personally I dont think I'd be able to draw my own conclusion on which actually is a better improvment unless I got to drive the same vehicles with the same wheel and tire combination at the same track on the same day with both brake kits.

Do you think you could make this happen???

I think everyone here and everywhere would love to see this. The only comparason I've seen was your 350z kits v/s the O.E. Brembo's on the Track Model. Which I hope you dont think was fair. WAS this just another "marketing idea"??? All this did was make peole think that StopTech was better than Brembo when in reality you weren't really comparing apples with apples.

snook789

350on19inchVolk very well said!

GaryK

I don't understand what you're saying here. Bob was comparing aftermarket Brembo kits to aftermarket Stoptech kits in this thread. As far as the test you speak of, I don't think the purpose was to make people think all Brembo brakes are inferior. It simply shows how those on the Track model compare.

If you don't understand the importance of piston sizes when engineering a kit to work with the stock master cylinder, then you may indeed need to learn more before making your own decision. The multitude of available piston sizes from Stoptech is the number one reason why they are at the top of my list.

Other factors are involved as well, such as caliper strength and durability, rotor type, hat materials, pad size, swept area, etc. When you compare Stoptech to Brembo, I think that there is less to argue about in some of these areas. There is no doubt that Stoptech is high quality. Higher quality than Brembo...I don't know. But for me, the proper piston sizing is one of the most important pieces to the puzzle.

Size the pistons wrong, and the pedal effort could either go through the roof, even increasing stopping distances, or the pedal effort could be too low resulting in terrible pedal feel and brakes that are impossible to modulate.

350on19inchVolk

Gary,

Youre right on. Everything you mentioned is correct. I do believe that you got most of you information from Stoptech and havn't given Brembo enough attention.

What Stoptech has always lead people to believe is that they are the only ones paying attention to piston sizes. This is untrue but happens to be Stoptechs biggest selling point. The gained attention by exploiting ans issue that no one has addressed. They went on to explain that they are the "Only Ones" paying attention to this when it has been in use by Brembo the entire time.

Brembo has used 3 different caliper bodies for 90% of there street kits. This made people believe they only have 3 choices.

Bob Lee explained that "now Brembo has 2 choices for the F50" and Stoptech has 15. The correction is that Brembo has at least three different piston combinations for the F50 body. Not to mention the other calipers they use. Lotus with 2 piston combinations. Mini Jag with multiple combinations as well.

Yes Stoptech can make any piston sizes they want on their One AND Only caliper body. Brembo uses different calipers for fitment issues. The Lotus body will work for 16" or larger wheels. The F50 body will work for 17" or larger wheels. Can you fit a Stoptech kit behind a 17" wheel????Probably not because of that "Stiffining Bridge".

Gary, we are only addressing the caliper issue. We havn't even addressed the lines, rotors, or hardware issues. I'd by the Brembo kit because of the special floating McLaren hardware alone. Or the fact that they only use Goodridge DOT approved lines. Or the fact that there rotors come out of Brembo/Italys race division and are the exact same rotos used in all the top level race series. Stoptech just recently swithched to Pilenga. Who were they using last month???

I hate responding to threads like this. I reccomend the Brembo kit because I actually know the difference. I have drivin cars with brake kits from nearly every manufacturer. I like the Stoptech brakes. They work well and they are still improving on some of there problems. And this is expected from a new company.

I just think people should know the facts. Stoptech is great at pointing out thing that nobody addresses. This make it look like it was their idea when it's obvious that it wasn't. If Brembo didn't care about piston sizes then why do the manufarture over 50 different calipers??? Another example is Stoptechs "Stiffining Bridge". This is a patented idea. Why do they need a patent??? Brembo has stated that they never have had a problem with caliper flex, EVER. This is another idea Stoptech is trying to use in there favor, this is a problem that doesnt even exist.

I am curious to see how there caliper flexes without the bridge???
Is the Bridge mandatory??? I know it makes changing the pads difficult. I know it adds weight. I know it makes wheel fitment difficult. Try and fit a 355mm Stoptech kit behind a 17" wheel. Brembos fits.

I'm done with this thread. I started by stating my opinion. I guess I hit a soft spot with Bob Lee. I'm Sorry.

Buy whatever kit you like. I like Brembo.

GaryK

350on19inchVolk

I must have misunderstood your post...I thought you were implying that piston sizing isn't very important because of what Brembo told you. I'm always open to learning new information. I've had trouble finding out exactly what the piston options are for Brembo calipers. If you could point me to this info I'd appreciate it. I mean, if Brembo has the resolution in piston sizes to do what Stoptech can, I'd surely like to know about it. But I have not been able to find more than a couple pistion sizes for the calipers you'd most likely want to use.

That is a good point about caliper bodys and wheel fitment too. This likely isn't a concern for me with the wheel sizes I'd be running, but it could be for somebody else.

Anyway, like I said, I'm putting available piston sizes up pretty high on the list. And some of the other concerns aren't going to matter enough to me to justify the price difference.

Blue Liquid

I just have to put a link to the following amazing thread. Get comfortable cause this one is long, but very worth your time. This thread addresses all kinds of brake caliper issues.
-Gennaro

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....0&pagenumber=1

DZeckhausen

I am a retailer for both companies and often a thorn in the side of both. I just happen to have a joint sponsorship agreement on this forum with StopTech, but if I see someone posting incorrect information about Brembo, I will jump in and defend them too.

The StopTech 332mm kit does fit under the stock 17" wheel. And, on the BMW 540i (my car), the 355mm kit will fit behind the 17" Style 66M factory wheel without spacers. In general, the Brembo front kits require a couple millimeters more clearance than the StopTech brakes.

I made the Brembo 355mm front kit fit under the 17" Style 66M wheels on my 2001 540i/6, but I had to use 5mm spacers and actually grind the leading and trailing outer edges of the caliper.

In the area of rear kits, Brembo currently has the fitment advantage since they use a new 345mm x 28mm rotor and the smaller profile Lotus caliper. StopTech has the 355mm x 32mm rotor for many rear applications where the 332mm rotor won't clear the factory parking brake.

Quote:

Gary, we are only addressing the caliper issue. We havn't even addressed the lines, rotors, or hardware issues. I'd by the Brembo kit because of the special floating McLaren hardware alone. Or the fact that they only use Goodridge DOT approved lines.

Goodridge lines aren't DOT "approved." Nobody's lines are. DOT does not have a certification process. They publish specifications and the line manufacturers apply for a DOT stamp that is placed on the lines. It's self policing. Someone has to complain of a problem before DOT will hire a 3rd party lab to actually do any testing.

TUV, on the other hand, is a tough testing process and lines are submitted to the TUV for analysis and rigerous testing. StopTech has gone through the TUV testing process and is awaiting the final paperwork for certification.

And by the way, those lines are also DOT compliant and have the DOT sticker on them. I like them better than the Goodridge lines and have often replaced Goodridge with StopTech at the request of big brake customers.

Quote:

Or the fact that there rotors come out of Brembo/Italys race division and are the exact same rotos used in all the top level race series. Stoptech just recently swithched to Pilenga. Who were they using last month???

TRW. But why does that matter? Brembo used to have rotors made in Pilenga and they switched too.

Quote:

I just think people should know the facts. Stoptech is great at pointing out thing that nobody addresses. This make it look like it was their idea when it's obvious that it wasn't. If Brembo didn't care about piston sizes then why do the manufarture over 50 different calipers??? Another example is Stoptechs "Stiffining Bridge". This is a patented idea. Why do they need a patent???

StopTech has a patent on the idea because it is a clever innovation and we have business rules that allow innovators to benefit from the fruits of their work. The stiffening bridge makes a very large difference in the stiffness of the caliper. I've seen the test result charts and will post them here as soon as they are handed over to me in digital form.

Brembo has lots of patents.

Quote:

Brembo has stated that they never have had a problem with caliper flex, EVER. This is another idea Stoptech is trying to use in there favor, this is a problem that doesnt even exist.

Stiffness translates into better pedal feel and more linear braking response to driver input. Stiffness is very important which is why Brembo calipers are so much better than Wilwood calipers. StopTech calipers are even stiffer than Brembo.

Quote:

I am curious to see how there caliper flexes without the bridge???
Is the Bridge mandatory??? I know it makes changing the pads difficult. I know it adds weight. I know it makes wheel fitment difficult. Try and fit a 355mm Stoptech kit behind a 17" wheel. Brembos fits.

The bridge was part of the original design of the caliper. It was always meant to be there. It wasn't added as an afterthought.

I sell, install, and service all sorts of brake kits and I know how hard it is to change pads. To change the StopTech pads, you remove two 5mm allen bolts that retain the bridge. Lift the bridge out, then slide out the pads.

To change the Brembo pads, you remove two cotter pin clips from the ends of two rods. Then you tap the rods out of the caliper body, releasing a spring pad retainer. Lift the pad retainer out. Then the pads slide out the top. It is EXACTLY the same difficulty to replace Brembo pads as it is to change StopTech pads. They are both far easier than the factory calipers.

Weight? Have you ever held one? It weighs nothing! A few ounces.

As far as interfering with wheel fitment, that's nonsense. The caliper stiffening bridge fits completely flush with the caliper top.

DZeckhausen

The purpose of the testing done on the factory Brembo kit was to establish a baseline from which the performance of the StopTech prototype could be evaluated. StopTech does this sort of testing with every kit they make in order to be sure their kit is optimized. They go to the track with a van full of calipers and test out the engineering solution, then they test out calipers with bigger and smaller pistons to make sure they've got the best combination.

There was no publicity intent with this testing. The only reason anyone knew about it was because I was lucky enough to be there and I documented the process. See: http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm for my photos and write-up. I had a blast and I put this web page together as a diary of that day and what I learned.

If you ever get a chance to attend some testing like that, go for it!

350on19inchVolk

Dave,

Everything you stated was great. I admire your position because you are a distributer for both. And from what I've seen you are also well respected in the industry.

I must correct you on the fitment issue.
I am running 17"x8.1/2" SSR superlights on my Audi. I am running the Brembo 355mm F50 brake kit with no spacers. I had a friend with the Stoptech 355 kit on his car. He wanted to borrow my wheels for a track event and could not fit the wheels. It appeared that the Stoptech caliper was thicker on the leading and trailing edges.

Maybe different applications with the same rotor size from each company varies. When my friend and I removed both calipers and pu the side by side the Brembo caliper looked to sit lower when placed on a flat surface. From what I can tell from looking at Stoptechs clearance drawings side by side with Brembos, Stoptechs overall diameter is usually a few mm. taller.

Dave, the original question on this thread was which is beter Stoptech or Brembo. What are you runningon your own vehicles?? What are you selling more of??? What types of problems with either company do you encounter???

Blownaway

iTrader: (1)

I am going to try and add my 2cents in here and please keep in mind that I have zero technical and zero mechanical skills. I have two heavily modified cars, both cars see allot of track time. Both cars have four piston four wheel setups. I have never been so impressed with a company like I have with Stoptech. Bob Lee is an awesome guy who flat out loves cars and making them better. My Passat brakes are out of this world. I can easily change my pads at the track and stay out there all day if I choose. I run a Nissan VW store and have had plenty of Brembo Experience. ON the Passat I Run both SSR Comps and OZ Chronos and on the Z I run 19 GT-7s on the street and SSRs at the track. Yes the Stoptech Calipers are bigger but there are ways around it. Like having the wheel weights statik mounted to the inside of the wheel to allow caliper clearance. This kit is far better than others on the market for several reasons....and having someone like Bob there to talk to is reason enough for me, since there brake kits are idiot proof. The Brembo setup on the Z in my opinion is good but not great...It doesnt have the same heat dissapation that the Stoptechs have....Ill get off my soap box now......thanks..