Why I will never again visit this tuner in Charlotte, NC
04-07-2004, 10:00 AM
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Why I will never again visit this tuner in Charlotte, NC
PART I
In the interest of keeping the Z community informed, I feel it is my duty to share the not so pleasant experiences I faced in getting my Vortech Supercharged 350Z to 420rwhp. I hate having to do this because a great job was done with the tuning. Unfortunately, other events overshadow the tuning effort. Ultimately, I will never return to the tuning shop and, if asked, I would not recommend them to others either. You should form your own opinions regarding the events described below.
Following is the majority of a letter I have written to Vortech Engineering regarding the matter…
I am writing today to inform you of recent experiences related to one of Vortech’s products. I am the owner of a 2003 Nissan 350Z and recently purchased your polished supercharger kit for the same.
Because I have a long standing relationship with a local garage, Cosentino Hi-Lines, I wanted to have their mechanics work on this project even though this shop is not an authorized Vortech installer. After some planning, I decided to buy the supercharger kit from Carolina Performance Racing (a Vortech authorized retailer), have the kit installed by Cosentino Hi-Lines, and finally have the car tuned by Underground Racing (a Vortech authorized installer, if what I’ve been told is true).
The items I bring to your attention today regard the tuning shop, Underground Racing and how that shop, and specifically the owner Kevin Howeth, poorly handled my concerns. I apologize in advance because what follows will be lengthy, but I feel it is necessary to relay to you my exact experience as a customer.
Item #1 – Oil Leak
The first problem I encountered with my new Vortech kit was an oil leak. Of course, it was investigated immediately and, ultimately, rectified with no real harm done. One reason I have maintained a relationship with Cosentino Hi-Lines is that they, based on my experiences, are very methodical and professional about their work. Basically, when I take my car to this shop for anything, I know the job is going to be done right. Also, having done a cam install several months ago, they are intimately familiar with my motor. This continued to be the case with the Vortech supercharger install. Upon completion, I picked up my car on Tuesday, March 23, 2004. Mark Cosentino, the shop owner and mechanic that performed the install, shared with me a photograph log of their work as well as taking time to show me the entire finished product in his garage. We inspected the car in detail on the ground as well as on the lift and he pointed out things to watch as traditional problem areas for superchargers. The car was also cranked and driven in the area of the shop. After much idle and drive time, Mark showed me the oil transfer points, key items about the belts, and how the entire install was leak-free and ready for the road. What he showed me first hand, matched the photograph log he had created as the install was performed.
Since Cosentino Hi-Lines has neither Vortech tuning software nor a dyno to perform tuning, I worked out an arrangement with Underground Racing to perform the engine tuning following the supercharger install. When these arrangements were made, Underground Racing informed me they are an authorized Vortech installer.
With confidence the install had been performed properly following our thorough inspection, I immediately drove the car just over 6 miles to Underground Racing for tuning, taking great care not to rev the motor too high since I was driving on the Vortech default settings . My car was left in the care of Underground Racing for approximately 4˝ hours. At the time of drop off, there were no signs of leaks anywhere. I took special note of this because I had a problem where my custom strut bar had rubbed one of the Vortech gears under body flex. While removing the strut bar, I looked over the install area closely and saw no signs of fluid anywhere.
After 4˝ hours, I returned to Underground Racing. They showed me the final dyno run figures and took me for a quick (2-3 mile ride) in the car to “check things out”. With all this done, I was ready to leave. In hindsight, I remember there being no fluids on the dyno when we pulled the car off of the dyno for the quick drive. I remember this because one of the spacers for the aforementioned custom strut bar had fallen onto a cross brace and could not be removed from above the car. During dyno tuning it appeared to have fallen out onto the floor in the dyno area. When we backed the car out, this piece was picked up and there were no signs of leaks or fluid anywhere. I was fairly excited about the dyno numbers so I failed to inspect the engine bay of my car before leaving Underground Racing.
At this time, I drove the 6 miles back to Cosentino Hi-Lines to share the dyno numbers with Mark Cosentino, the owner, and it was a good thing I did. When I arrived, we discovered a large amount of oil had leaked into the pans that close off the engine bay from the road. When we checked the oil level, the reading was between one and two quarts low! The car had not leaked following the install, on the way to the tuner, or on the dyno, but seemed to begin leaking after I left the tuner to return to the install shop.
Once the car was on the lift, we found a fitting that was loose. During install this piece was tightened securely and Teflon tape was used on the threads of the fitting to further ensure there would be no leak. Since we had the pictures of the install to reference, it was easy to see the fitting was not in the same position it had been in when I left the install shop earlier that day. The only place the car was out of my presence was at the tuner.
When I spoke to Kevin Howeth concerning this, he became angry which I admit is an understandable initial reaction. However, my only known facts when I spoke to him were when the leak began and that the fitting was securely tightened at install as this was shown to me during the original inspection at Cosentino Hi-Lines and verified by the photograph of the fitting. However, instead of helping me discern what may have actually happened to cause the part to become loose, Kevin proceeded to yell at me, address me with derogatory name-calling, and attack both my character and the work of the install shop without provocation. I was simply attempting to investigate a problem I, the customer, had encountered and Kevin immediately became defensive and belligerent. When I tried to provide additional background information regarding my experience, he would simply yell over my voice and ignore my comments. Considering this, it is unlikely I will ever fully determine what caused this issue.
Following discovery of the source of the leak that afternoon at Cosentino Hi-Lines, the fitting was reseated and I have had no problems whatsoever with oil since.
In the interest of keeping the Z community informed, I feel it is my duty to share the not so pleasant experiences I faced in getting my Vortech Supercharged 350Z to 420rwhp. I hate having to do this because a great job was done with the tuning. Unfortunately, other events overshadow the tuning effort. Ultimately, I will never return to the tuning shop and, if asked, I would not recommend them to others either. You should form your own opinions regarding the events described below.
Following is the majority of a letter I have written to Vortech Engineering regarding the matter…
I am writing today to inform you of recent experiences related to one of Vortech’s products. I am the owner of a 2003 Nissan 350Z and recently purchased your polished supercharger kit for the same.
Because I have a long standing relationship with a local garage, Cosentino Hi-Lines, I wanted to have their mechanics work on this project even though this shop is not an authorized Vortech installer. After some planning, I decided to buy the supercharger kit from Carolina Performance Racing (a Vortech authorized retailer), have the kit installed by Cosentino Hi-Lines, and finally have the car tuned by Underground Racing (a Vortech authorized installer, if what I’ve been told is true).
The items I bring to your attention today regard the tuning shop, Underground Racing and how that shop, and specifically the owner Kevin Howeth, poorly handled my concerns. I apologize in advance because what follows will be lengthy, but I feel it is necessary to relay to you my exact experience as a customer.
Item #1 – Oil Leak
The first problem I encountered with my new Vortech kit was an oil leak. Of course, it was investigated immediately and, ultimately, rectified with no real harm done. One reason I have maintained a relationship with Cosentino Hi-Lines is that they, based on my experiences, are very methodical and professional about their work. Basically, when I take my car to this shop for anything, I know the job is going to be done right. Also, having done a cam install several months ago, they are intimately familiar with my motor. This continued to be the case with the Vortech supercharger install. Upon completion, I picked up my car on Tuesday, March 23, 2004. Mark Cosentino, the shop owner and mechanic that performed the install, shared with me a photograph log of their work as well as taking time to show me the entire finished product in his garage. We inspected the car in detail on the ground as well as on the lift and he pointed out things to watch as traditional problem areas for superchargers. The car was also cranked and driven in the area of the shop. After much idle and drive time, Mark showed me the oil transfer points, key items about the belts, and how the entire install was leak-free and ready for the road. What he showed me first hand, matched the photograph log he had created as the install was performed.
Since Cosentino Hi-Lines has neither Vortech tuning software nor a dyno to perform tuning, I worked out an arrangement with Underground Racing to perform the engine tuning following the supercharger install. When these arrangements were made, Underground Racing informed me they are an authorized Vortech installer.
With confidence the install had been performed properly following our thorough inspection, I immediately drove the car just over 6 miles to Underground Racing for tuning, taking great care not to rev the motor too high since I was driving on the Vortech default settings . My car was left in the care of Underground Racing for approximately 4˝ hours. At the time of drop off, there were no signs of leaks anywhere. I took special note of this because I had a problem where my custom strut bar had rubbed one of the Vortech gears under body flex. While removing the strut bar, I looked over the install area closely and saw no signs of fluid anywhere.
After 4˝ hours, I returned to Underground Racing. They showed me the final dyno run figures and took me for a quick (2-3 mile ride) in the car to “check things out”. With all this done, I was ready to leave. In hindsight, I remember there being no fluids on the dyno when we pulled the car off of the dyno for the quick drive. I remember this because one of the spacers for the aforementioned custom strut bar had fallen onto a cross brace and could not be removed from above the car. During dyno tuning it appeared to have fallen out onto the floor in the dyno area. When we backed the car out, this piece was picked up and there were no signs of leaks or fluid anywhere. I was fairly excited about the dyno numbers so I failed to inspect the engine bay of my car before leaving Underground Racing.
At this time, I drove the 6 miles back to Cosentino Hi-Lines to share the dyno numbers with Mark Cosentino, the owner, and it was a good thing I did. When I arrived, we discovered a large amount of oil had leaked into the pans that close off the engine bay from the road. When we checked the oil level, the reading was between one and two quarts low! The car had not leaked following the install, on the way to the tuner, or on the dyno, but seemed to begin leaking after I left the tuner to return to the install shop.
Once the car was on the lift, we found a fitting that was loose. During install this piece was tightened securely and Teflon tape was used on the threads of the fitting to further ensure there would be no leak. Since we had the pictures of the install to reference, it was easy to see the fitting was not in the same position it had been in when I left the install shop earlier that day. The only place the car was out of my presence was at the tuner.
When I spoke to Kevin Howeth concerning this, he became angry which I admit is an understandable initial reaction. However, my only known facts when I spoke to him were when the leak began and that the fitting was securely tightened at install as this was shown to me during the original inspection at Cosentino Hi-Lines and verified by the photograph of the fitting. However, instead of helping me discern what may have actually happened to cause the part to become loose, Kevin proceeded to yell at me, address me with derogatory name-calling, and attack both my character and the work of the install shop without provocation. I was simply attempting to investigate a problem I, the customer, had encountered and Kevin immediately became defensive and belligerent. When I tried to provide additional background information regarding my experience, he would simply yell over my voice and ignore my comments. Considering this, it is unlikely I will ever fully determine what caused this issue.
Following discovery of the source of the leak that afternoon at Cosentino Hi-Lines, the fitting was reseated and I have had no problems whatsoever with oil since.
04-07-2004, 10:01 AM
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PART II
Item #2 – Dyno Tuning
There was also a questionable occurrence regarding the dyno tuning of my Vortech supercharged 350Z. I was never able to discuss this with Kevin because of the attitude he had taken when I brought up the aforementioned oil leak issue. Basically, when I picked up my vehicle from Underground Racing the first time (the afternoon of March 23rd), they told me they had been able to tune my Vortech supercharged 350Z to a peak 400 rear wheel horsepower (SAE corrected) on their Dynojet dyno and charged me in full for their tuning service. They also gave me a dyno sheet clearly showing a peak number of 395 rwhp (see first message following this post).
I was told an additional 20-30 rwhp may be possible once the serpentine belt was tightened (it had developed a little slack during breaking in). No other information was conveyed to me. So, I was given the impression my car was more or less tuned and was right at 400rwhp when I left Underground Racing on March 23, 2004.
On the morning of April 2, 2004, I returned to Cosentino Hi-Lines for some tweaking, such as tensioning the serpentine belt, as we planned to dyno the car one final time before a big regional car show. We wanted to ensure we would hit our best numbers yet on the dyno. Because I had other concerns at this point, I took my car to another dyno shop, Dave Brown Motorsports in Charlotte, NC. I had worked with Dave Brown in the past, but he also does not have tuning software for Vortech kits and could not help me on this particular project. Prior to installing the Vortech supercharger, my car turned very similar numbers on the Underground Racing Dynojet as it did on Dave Brown’s Dynojet. On this morning, my car produced only 350rwhp as in the dyno chart from Dave Brown Motorsports (see Attachment #2).
Again, both shops have the same type of DynoJet dyno and my car hit similar numbers at both shops prior to the supercharger install. At this point, my car hit a best output around 50 horsepower less than what Underground Racing had claimed to have tuned my car. I can understand some minor variance between two dynos, but not a 50 horsepower drop.
Dissatisfied with this dyno number, I reasoned that I had no choice but to return to Underground Racing for final tuning, which I did later that same morning. When I arrived at Underground Racing, they were able to get my car right on the dyno. I noted that KC, the technician that had tuned my car before, did not immediately do a dyno run with my car. So, I have no direct basis for comparison against the runs Dave Brown Motorsports did earlier that morning. KC first connected to the Split Second computer and loaded a new set of tuning parameters. I was not informed this was happening. I watched the progress bar fill on the computer screen as new tuning parameters were set. After this KC proceeded to tune the car and on three runs got approximately 400rwhp on the first run (after loading the new parameters), 410rwhp on the second, and finally 424rwhp on the third (see third message following this post)
Pleased with the final run, I told KC I was happy with those settings and it was not necessary to continue. He unhooked everything from my car and did no further adjustment. I presume my car is still at the settings that give me 420rwhp and it does feel stronger than it did prior to the return trip to Underground Racing, but I will verify this by again visiting Dave Brown Motorsports in the near future.
Item #3 – Price Quotes
While I know you cannot be involved in any disputes involving pricing with those that sell or tune your superchargers, I feel it is fair for me to provide this account as well.
After the first round of tuning was completed on March 23rd, I was charged $650 total by Underground Racing for their services, which I paid with cash and check. Later, I discovered they had quoted others I know $300 tuning, $150 dyno time, and $200 for installing the Split Second box. This upset me because Cosentino Hi-Lines had installed my Split Second box, not Underground Racing. Essentially, I felt I had been overcharged and this was on top of the other issues I have been describing. While it was probably not the wisest way to approach the issue, I had my bank issue a stop payment on the check until I could meet with Kevin to discuss the pricing.
The next time I saw anyone from Underground Racing was on April 2, 2004 during the second visit for tuning which became required after the dyno results at Dave Brown Motorsports revealed the motor had been de-tuned prior to leaving Underground Racing on March 23, 2004. I told Kevin exactly what I had done regarding the payment and why. This upset him and he expressed an opinion that I should have contacted him first. I agree, I probably should have, but I could not change that after the fact. Once he explained why I was charged more, I settled my charges with Underground Racing via credit card for the amount the original check was written even though I personally don’t agree with the explained difference in price I received versus the price quote a good friend of mine received for the same work to be done on his 350Z.
Shortly following this is when we moved on to the discussion of the other matters described above. As I stated before, we did not get very far with this dialogue as Kevin’s approach to this discussion was to yell at me, insult me, and threaten me. The threat came in the form that I would “regret it” and he “would take action” if I were to make public any information about my experience.
I can only attest to the facts as I experienced them. I am very happy with the Vortech supercharger and with the final tune that was done on my car. I do not know what happened regarding my oil problem and, as it is fixed and no longer appears to be an issue, I really don’t care now.
However, there has been no explanation why I was told by Underground Racing my car dyno-ed at 400rwhp only to find later that it had, in fact, been detuned to 350rwhp before I arrived to pick it up on March 23, 2004.
More importantly, I am offended by the lack of professionalism Underground Racing, and specifically Kevin Howeth, has shown me regarding the business I have done with them. While I respect Kevin’s opinion regarding what may or may not have happened related to the install and tuning of my Vortech supercharger, I found him completely unhelpful in trying to determine the facts surrounding what actually occurred. As a customer, I do not appreciate the attitude Kevin took with me when these things were brought up for discussion face-to-face. Being the customer, I thought Underground Racing would be more sympathetic in addressing my concerns. Instead, I found anger, direct insults, and accusations that are contrary to facts that I know to be true.
Because of my experience with Underground Racing, I will not return to them ever and I will continue to share the facts surrounding the install and tuning of my Vortech kit as I have above.
If you have any questions regarding these events, feel free to contact me using the site's PM service.
Item #2 – Dyno Tuning
There was also a questionable occurrence regarding the dyno tuning of my Vortech supercharged 350Z. I was never able to discuss this with Kevin because of the attitude he had taken when I brought up the aforementioned oil leak issue. Basically, when I picked up my vehicle from Underground Racing the first time (the afternoon of March 23rd), they told me they had been able to tune my Vortech supercharged 350Z to a peak 400 rear wheel horsepower (SAE corrected) on their Dynojet dyno and charged me in full for their tuning service. They also gave me a dyno sheet clearly showing a peak number of 395 rwhp (see first message following this post).
I was told an additional 20-30 rwhp may be possible once the serpentine belt was tightened (it had developed a little slack during breaking in). No other information was conveyed to me. So, I was given the impression my car was more or less tuned and was right at 400rwhp when I left Underground Racing on March 23, 2004.
On the morning of April 2, 2004, I returned to Cosentino Hi-Lines for some tweaking, such as tensioning the serpentine belt, as we planned to dyno the car one final time before a big regional car show. We wanted to ensure we would hit our best numbers yet on the dyno. Because I had other concerns at this point, I took my car to another dyno shop, Dave Brown Motorsports in Charlotte, NC. I had worked with Dave Brown in the past, but he also does not have tuning software for Vortech kits and could not help me on this particular project. Prior to installing the Vortech supercharger, my car turned very similar numbers on the Underground Racing Dynojet as it did on Dave Brown’s Dynojet. On this morning, my car produced only 350rwhp as in the dyno chart from Dave Brown Motorsports (see Attachment #2).
Again, both shops have the same type of DynoJet dyno and my car hit similar numbers at both shops prior to the supercharger install. At this point, my car hit a best output around 50 horsepower less than what Underground Racing had claimed to have tuned my car. I can understand some minor variance between two dynos, but not a 50 horsepower drop.
Dissatisfied with this dyno number, I reasoned that I had no choice but to return to Underground Racing for final tuning, which I did later that same morning. When I arrived at Underground Racing, they were able to get my car right on the dyno. I noted that KC, the technician that had tuned my car before, did not immediately do a dyno run with my car. So, I have no direct basis for comparison against the runs Dave Brown Motorsports did earlier that morning. KC first connected to the Split Second computer and loaded a new set of tuning parameters. I was not informed this was happening. I watched the progress bar fill on the computer screen as new tuning parameters were set. After this KC proceeded to tune the car and on three runs got approximately 400rwhp on the first run (after loading the new parameters), 410rwhp on the second, and finally 424rwhp on the third (see third message following this post)
Pleased with the final run, I told KC I was happy with those settings and it was not necessary to continue. He unhooked everything from my car and did no further adjustment. I presume my car is still at the settings that give me 420rwhp and it does feel stronger than it did prior to the return trip to Underground Racing, but I will verify this by again visiting Dave Brown Motorsports in the near future.
Item #3 – Price Quotes
While I know you cannot be involved in any disputes involving pricing with those that sell or tune your superchargers, I feel it is fair for me to provide this account as well.
After the first round of tuning was completed on March 23rd, I was charged $650 total by Underground Racing for their services, which I paid with cash and check. Later, I discovered they had quoted others I know $300 tuning, $150 dyno time, and $200 for installing the Split Second box. This upset me because Cosentino Hi-Lines had installed my Split Second box, not Underground Racing. Essentially, I felt I had been overcharged and this was on top of the other issues I have been describing. While it was probably not the wisest way to approach the issue, I had my bank issue a stop payment on the check until I could meet with Kevin to discuss the pricing.
The next time I saw anyone from Underground Racing was on April 2, 2004 during the second visit for tuning which became required after the dyno results at Dave Brown Motorsports revealed the motor had been de-tuned prior to leaving Underground Racing on March 23, 2004. I told Kevin exactly what I had done regarding the payment and why. This upset him and he expressed an opinion that I should have contacted him first. I agree, I probably should have, but I could not change that after the fact. Once he explained why I was charged more, I settled my charges with Underground Racing via credit card for the amount the original check was written even though I personally don’t agree with the explained difference in price I received versus the price quote a good friend of mine received for the same work to be done on his 350Z.
Shortly following this is when we moved on to the discussion of the other matters described above. As I stated before, we did not get very far with this dialogue as Kevin’s approach to this discussion was to yell at me, insult me, and threaten me. The threat came in the form that I would “regret it” and he “would take action” if I were to make public any information about my experience.
I can only attest to the facts as I experienced them. I am very happy with the Vortech supercharger and with the final tune that was done on my car. I do not know what happened regarding my oil problem and, as it is fixed and no longer appears to be an issue, I really don’t care now.
However, there has been no explanation why I was told by Underground Racing my car dyno-ed at 400rwhp only to find later that it had, in fact, been detuned to 350rwhp before I arrived to pick it up on March 23, 2004.
More importantly, I am offended by the lack of professionalism Underground Racing, and specifically Kevin Howeth, has shown me regarding the business I have done with them. While I respect Kevin’s opinion regarding what may or may not have happened related to the install and tuning of my Vortech supercharger, I found him completely unhelpful in trying to determine the facts surrounding what actually occurred. As a customer, I do not appreciate the attitude Kevin took with me when these things were brought up for discussion face-to-face. Being the customer, I thought Underground Racing would be more sympathetic in addressing my concerns. Instead, I found anger, direct insults, and accusations that are contrary to facts that I know to be true.
Because of my experience with Underground Racing, I will not return to them ever and I will continue to share the facts surrounding the install and tuning of my Vortech kit as I have above.
If you have any questions regarding these events, feel free to contact me using the site's PM service.
04-07-2004, 10:02 AM
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Blow up from dyno taken on first day picked up from UR (3/23/04).
I can email the full image of any of these dyno scans if anyone wants to see them.
I can email the full image of any of these dyno scans if anyone wants to see them.
04-07-2004, 10:05 AM
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Finally, blow of of final dyno taken at UR after my second visit.
If you are considering using this shop for tuning, you must make your own decisions about them. I provide my account only so you may make a more informed decision about the company you will be dealing with.
If you are considering using this shop for tuning, you must make your own decisions about them. I provide my account only so you may make a more informed decision about the company you will be dealing with.
04-07-2004, 12:03 PM
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Hmmm, interesting, both Zimbo and I had our vortech kits installed and tuned by them with no problems. However, they did jack up the price of the tuning in the middle of the install. They originally quoted me $450 for tuning and dyno. I ended up paying about $600 for the tuning. I was very unhappy with this because I drove 500 miles and we already agreed on a price before my trip. However, Ralph the owner of CPRACE offered to pay the difference. But I still ended up paying $200 more then the original quoted price. But the $200 included changing out the spark plugs, installing a SUper AFC-II and 5 quarts of royal purple which was not part of our original agreement. So everything worked out in the end.
ALso, about the DYNO problem. Do you have a boost guage with a peak boost feature hooked up? I have noticed that somedays I would hit 9psi at redline. Other days I would hit only 5.5 psi. It all depends on the temperature and if the belts are tight or not. On hot days the rubber will shrink causing the belts to be tighter, and colder days the belts will expand. I know people say boost guages are useless for a supercharger, but ITS NOT useless, make sure you get a gauge with a memory function to see the max boost you hit. A boost guage is the only way you can tell if your belts needs tightening or not, unless your belts are SO lose that its squealng.
ALso, about the DYNO problem. Do you have a boost guage with a peak boost feature hooked up? I have noticed that somedays I would hit 9psi at redline. Other days I would hit only 5.5 psi. It all depends on the temperature and if the belts are tight or not. On hot days the rubber will shrink causing the belts to be tighter, and colder days the belts will expand. I know people say boost guages are useless for a supercharger, but ITS NOT useless, make sure you get a gauge with a memory function to see the max boost you hit. A boost guage is the only way you can tell if your belts needs tightening or not, unless your belts are SO lose that its squealng.
Last edited by dollar99; 04-07-2004 at 12:10 PM.
04-07-2004, 12:41 PM
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Dollar99... it was largely because of you and Zimbo that I chose to have UR do my tuning. Addressing your comments by paragraph...
Your account now makes three that I have heard of which places the tuning and dyno in the $400-450 range and has the mysterious additional $200 charge. For one quote this was clearly defined as the price to wire up the Split Second which was already done on mine.
As for the dynos.... you may be right, but in this case.... umm, no.... I drove pretty much straight from Dave Brown Motorsports to Underground Racing (check the times on my dynos). The car was definitely detuned prior to me picking it up from Underground Racing the first time. Nothing of this was mentioned when I picked up the car (or since) and I was charged the $650 for what I was led to believe was a 400rwhp tune
Your account now makes three that I have heard of which places the tuning and dyno in the $400-450 range and has the mysterious additional $200 charge. For one quote this was clearly defined as the price to wire up the Split Second which was already done on mine.
As for the dynos.... you may be right, but in this case.... umm, no.... I drove pretty much straight from Dave Brown Motorsports to Underground Racing (check the times on my dynos). The car was definitely detuned prior to me picking it up from Underground Racing the first time. Nothing of this was mentioned when I picked up the car (or since) and I was charged the $650 for what I was led to believe was a 400rwhp tune
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04-07-2004, 03:22 PM
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I just want to pipe in here and say that there are no "authorized" Vortech installers, only authorized resellers. CPRacing is, in fact, an authorized reseller of Vortech products.
04-07-2004, 03:32 PM
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valuable story/post...
sorry for the grief you've had (hope it helps others make a decision or two)
any chance the new map wasnt saved right (at all?) or, that the ECU tries to de-tune itself to some capacity??
jus wondering.....
-eS
sorry for the grief you've had (hope it helps others make a decision or two)
any chance the new map wasnt saved right (at all?) or, that the ECU tries to de-tune itself to some capacity??
jus wondering.....
-eS
04-07-2004, 05:52 PM
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My dealer charged me $250 to "incorrectly" install the new cooler plugs in my car. It seems that it takes a bit more time to change out the spark plugs on our cars then on most other cars. Maybe 30 mins by a hardened vet under a 350Z hood, but most likely 1 hour for the common tech.
Im sorry to hear of your troubles mcduck. I always stay with my tuner when they are dynoing my car because they just might have a question or a problem and i want to be there when it comes up.
Im sorry to hear of your troubles mcduck. I always stay with my tuner when they are dynoing my car because they just might have a question or a problem and i want to be there when it comes up.
04-07-2004, 07:41 PM
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Why do you have a Super AFC instead of the Splitesecond?
Originally posted by dollar99
Hmmm, interesting, both Zimbo and I had our vortech kits installed and tuned by them with no problems. However, they did jack up the price of the tuning in the middle of the install. They originally quoted me $450 for tuning and dyno. I ended up paying about $600 for the tuning. I was very unhappy with this because I drove 500 miles and we already agreed on a price before my trip. However, Ralph the owner of CPRACE offered to pay the difference. But I still ended up paying $200 more then the original quoted price. But the $200 included changing out the spark plugs, installing a SUper AFC-II and 5 quarts of royal purple which was not part of our original agreement. So everything worked out in the end.
ALso, about the DYNO problem. Do you have a boost guage with a peak boost feature hooked up? I have noticed that somedays I would hit 9psi at redline. Other days I would hit only 5.5 psi. It all depends on the temperature and if the belts are tight or not. On hot days the rubber will shrink causing the belts to be tighter, and colder days the belts will expand. I know people say boost guages are useless for a supercharger, but ITS NOT useless, make sure you get a gauge with a memory function to see the max boost you hit. A boost guage is the only way you can tell if your belts needs tightening or not, unless your belts are SO lose that its squealng.
Hmmm, interesting, both Zimbo and I had our vortech kits installed and tuned by them with no problems. However, they did jack up the price of the tuning in the middle of the install. They originally quoted me $450 for tuning and dyno. I ended up paying about $600 for the tuning. I was very unhappy with this because I drove 500 miles and we already agreed on a price before my trip. However, Ralph the owner of CPRACE offered to pay the difference. But I still ended up paying $200 more then the original quoted price. But the $200 included changing out the spark plugs, installing a SUper AFC-II and 5 quarts of royal purple which was not part of our original agreement. So everything worked out in the end.
ALso, about the DYNO problem. Do you have a boost guage with a peak boost feature hooked up? I have noticed that somedays I would hit 9psi at redline. Other days I would hit only 5.5 psi. It all depends on the temperature and if the belts are tight or not. On hot days the rubber will shrink causing the belts to be tighter, and colder days the belts will expand. I know people say boost guages are useless for a supercharger, but ITS NOT useless, make sure you get a gauge with a memory function to see the max boost you hit. A boost guage is the only way you can tell if your belts needs tightening or not, unless your belts are SO lose that its squealng.
04-07-2004, 10:00 PM
#15
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Originally posted by dollar99
rubber acts the opposite then with metals.
rubber acts the opposite then with metals.
-D'oh!
04-08-2004, 02:41 AM
#16
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Originally posted by D'oh
I was about to say you were wrong, but while checking the facts I found that rubber actually behaves both ways depending on the initial strain (stretch). It will either expand with heat, or contract with heat. Pretty cool. Goes to show that you learn something new every day.
-D'oh!
I was about to say you were wrong, but while checking the facts I found that rubber actually behaves both ways depending on the initial strain (stretch). It will either expand with heat, or contract with heat. Pretty cool. Goes to show that you learn something new every day.
-D'oh!
-D'oh!!
04-08-2004, 07:21 AM
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any chance the new map wasnt saved right (at all?) or, that the ECU tries to de-tune itself to some capacity??
Further, they did not run the dyno first thing when I arrived. If it was an honest mistake, wouldn't they have assumed the old program was still on the car rather than having to load the tune settings. I find it odd that, without any comment from me, the tune settings were loaded prior to making the first dyno run.
Im sorry to hear of your troubles mcduck. I always stay with my tuner when they are dynoing my car because they just might have a question or a problem and i want to be there when it comes up.
04-08-2004, 07:24 AM
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Also, guys & gals, thanks for your sympathy, but it is unnecessary. I'm taking the steps I feel I must. My post was primarily to share my experience with the 350Z community... and I will soon share it with the Mustang and Viper communities as well since that is the main market this tuning shop caters to.
I realize people make mistakes and I was willing to discuss this in person with Underground Racing. What I don't think is right are the items the cannot explain and the way I was treated as a customer. Others should know these things in case they are/were considering using this shop's services.
I realize people make mistakes and I was willing to discuss this in person with Underground Racing. What I don't think is right are the items the cannot explain and the way I was treated as a customer. Others should know these things in case they are/were considering using this shop's services.
04-08-2004, 10:00 AM
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I just want to pipe in here and say that there are no "authorized" Vortech installers, only authorized resellers. CPRacing is, in fact, an authorized reseller of Vortech products.
