Would you trust these brakes??? - Phat Boy Big Brake Kits
07-14-2010, 11:24 AM
#21
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So the guy gets the stuff straight from the factory. That's cool.
I'd rather cut the middle man out of the deal & save a couple grand buying it from this guy!
It sucks for all those people who bought these & spent the extra $1500-$2000 for the "ALLIANCE" logo. That's an expensive etch.
I'd rather cut the middle man out of the deal & save a couple grand buying it from this guy!
It sucks for all those people who bought these & spent the extra $1500-$2000 for the "ALLIANCE" logo. That's an expensive etch.
07-14-2010, 11:50 AM
#24
That is a completely different situation though. They are producing a wheel that is made to mimic a Volk designed wheel.
These brakes aren't meant to be copies of Project Mu or Stoptech, just like the above statement the owner made.
This situation would fall into a category such as Dell, HP, etc. Most of the computers people buy are all manufactured in the same warehouse. Not until the very end do they receive their stamped logo to identify them.
This doesn't make the brakes inferior to Alliance. IMO if the statement is true, that these brakes are the produced in the same place as other major brands then why not use them? Just cause they don't say Stoptech on the side? Not saying I would or would not buy them but people play the name game a little too hard. I own Volks but I didn't run out and go buy the wheel just because it said Volk. I leave my options and opinions on products open. If a product performs well and is made well, I'll gladly use it.
These brakes aren't meant to be copies of Project Mu or Stoptech, just like the above statement the owner made.
This situation would fall into a category such as Dell, HP, etc. Most of the computers people buy are all manufactured in the same warehouse. Not until the very end do they receive their stamped logo to identify them.
This doesn't make the brakes inferior to Alliance. IMO if the statement is true, that these brakes are the produced in the same place as other major brands then why not use them? Just cause they don't say Stoptech on the side? Not saying I would or would not buy them but people play the name game a little too hard. I own Volks but I didn't run out and go buy the wheel just because it said Volk. I leave my options and opinions on products open. If a product performs well and is made well, I'll gladly use it.
07-14-2010, 11:56 AM
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i really wished there was some good reviews on these brakes. i would have my own engraving on them. one side "deez" the other side "nutz"
some kid: "cool brakes, who makes them?"
me: "deez nutz"
Last edited by 03LeMans350zed; 07-14-2010 at 11:59 AM.
07-14-2010, 12:27 PM
#26
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mike here haha
Thanks jiggy; its not just that though. The brakes are marked up more than PHATBOY brand (
) because of the increased costs on our end; we're not getting rich off this, rest assured on that. Sure we make enough to keep the business running, pay the development costs of new kits (i.e. the 370Z and G37, working on S13/S14 kits as we speak, and possibly GTR next), develop and prototype new products such as some titanium products we've been experimenting with, and keep business expenses in check. If this guy lives down the road from a factory, then he is saving the 100 dollars per kit/200 per set just to get the kits, the 300 for customs and import fees which either a customer will pay importing buying from him or we do it, so its all the same in the end.
For example: The most common set up we sell is cheaper from us than from them. Their initial price is less as stated in the thread, but after shipping (~200), import taxes (we'll under estimate and say 250 for import and duty charges + shipping company (UPS/FedEx) brokerage charges that you'll pay importing) , you're already paying more. And on top of this, Alliance and Blackline are merging into one company to provide even better service, combined knowledge in one place, bigger inventories, and all around better service.
Then what? I have a question about installing these newly purchased phatboy kits on my 350Z. Let's call for customer support! Oh wait...We are vendors here on my350z because our company only sells parts for the Z/G community. I've owned three 350Zs, and worked on more Z/Gs than I can shake a stick at. Blackline's owner has owned a 350Z. I'm in the market for my fourth (A black HR, holla if you got one
). Sure we have vendor accounts with companies that sell parts for every make and model ever made, and we have full access to these parts. But we stick solely to the Z community, as that is a passion and what we do best. We've bring many great products to this community. We introduced Alliance to this community. We put Bassani systems on the map for the Zs, and continue to be their number one seller of Z systems. Bassani came to us with questions and for feedback on the development of their 370Z kit, because they know we are a go-to source of knowledge.
Ask any of our previous customers about the service I strive to provide on here. Not only am I on here literally 20 hours of the day answering questions (my sleep problems=service for you!), every customer who has ever bought a kit receives a phone call from me, has my cell phone number, and speaks to me personally on a regular basis. Almost all of our potential and current customers text me throughout the day with questions. Even when customers in CA and HI text me at what is 12, 2, 4, or 5AM my time, I reply within 30 minutes, and I have a hoard of customers who will attest to that. The service received with any purchase from Blackline (especially on Alliance kits) is unparalleled on this forum and in any industry if I had to guess.
Ask the owner of this phatboy company what the displacement of a VQ motor is. Ask him which setup he thinks will meet your goals and budget better. Hell, ask him how many doors a 350Z has.
Just because someone is attempting to the Alliance design and factory does not show a flaw or weakness in the quality of the Alliance kits. If someone takes a bottle of Grey Goose and puts their own label on it and calls it 'Big Booty Hos,' does that compromise the quality of the product? There is a pending trademark on the design, shape, and appearance of Alliance kits that will be in effect as soon as the aforementioned merger of Alliance and Blackline occurs. It's a lot of legal paperwork to form a new corporation so hopefully this will be done soon, as it has been underway for a period of time now. But believe this situation will be resolved with us on top.
After seeing this thread, posts, my reply, and whatever else comes of it, I hope it is apparent that the service, dedication, specialization, knowledge, and love for 350Zs and this community in general, along with the in-the-end-better pricing of the Alliance kits will result in the continued support of the soon to be collective efforts of Blackline and Alliance. I truly believe the Alliance kits are a fresh face in the braking world for the Nissan/Infinity line up, and many customers are former Project Mu, Stoptech, and AP customers who have made the switch to Alliance, and they couldn't be happier. These sort of small victories strengthen my thoughts that the Alliance brand is growing, and will soon be a household name around here.
As always, I am here for any questions via PM or here in this thread.
Mike
So the guy gets the stuff straight from the factory. That's cool.
I'd rather cut the middle man out of the deal & save a couple grand buying it from this guy!
It sucks for all those people who bought these & spent the extra $1500-$2000 for the "ALLIANCE" logo. That's an expensive etch.
I'd rather cut the middle man out of the deal & save a couple grand buying it from this guy!
It sucks for all those people who bought these & spent the extra $1500-$2000 for the "ALLIANCE" logo. That's an expensive etch.
) because of the increased costs on our end; we're not getting rich off this, rest assured on that. Sure we make enough to keep the business running, pay the development costs of new kits (i.e. the 370Z and G37, working on S13/S14 kits as we speak, and possibly GTR next), develop and prototype new products such as some titanium products we've been experimenting with, and keep business expenses in check. If this guy lives down the road from a factory, then he is saving the 100 dollars per kit/200 per set just to get the kits, the 300 for customs and import fees which either a customer will pay importing buying from him or we do it, so its all the same in the end.For example: The most common set up we sell is cheaper from us than from them. Their initial price is less as stated in the thread, but after shipping (~200), import taxes (we'll under estimate and say 250 for import and duty charges + shipping company (UPS/FedEx) brokerage charges that you'll pay importing) , you're already paying more. And on top of this, Alliance and Blackline are merging into one company to provide even better service, combined knowledge in one place, bigger inventories, and all around better service.
Then what? I have a question about installing these newly purchased phatboy kits on my 350Z. Let's call for customer support! Oh wait...We are vendors here on my350z because our company only sells parts for the Z/G community. I've owned three 350Zs, and worked on more Z/Gs than I can shake a stick at. Blackline's owner has owned a 350Z. I'm in the market for my fourth (A black HR, holla if you got one
). Sure we have vendor accounts with companies that sell parts for every make and model ever made, and we have full access to these parts. But we stick solely to the Z community, as that is a passion and what we do best. We've bring many great products to this community. We introduced Alliance to this community. We put Bassani systems on the map for the Zs, and continue to be their number one seller of Z systems. Bassani came to us with questions and for feedback on the development of their 370Z kit, because they know we are a go-to source of knowledge. Ask any of our previous customers about the service I strive to provide on here. Not only am I on here literally 20 hours of the day answering questions (my sleep problems=service for you!), every customer who has ever bought a kit receives a phone call from me, has my cell phone number, and speaks to me personally on a regular basis. Almost all of our potential and current customers text me throughout the day with questions. Even when customers in CA and HI text me at what is 12, 2, 4, or 5AM my time, I reply within 30 minutes, and I have a hoard of customers who will attest to that. The service received with any purchase from Blackline (especially on Alliance kits) is unparalleled on this forum and in any industry if I had to guess.
Ask the owner of this phatboy company what the displacement of a VQ motor is. Ask him which setup he thinks will meet your goals and budget better. Hell, ask him how many doors a 350Z has.
Just because someone is attempting to the Alliance design and factory does not show a flaw or weakness in the quality of the Alliance kits. If someone takes a bottle of Grey Goose and puts their own label on it and calls it 'Big Booty Hos,' does that compromise the quality of the product? There is a pending trademark on the design, shape, and appearance of Alliance kits that will be in effect as soon as the aforementioned merger of Alliance and Blackline occurs. It's a lot of legal paperwork to form a new corporation so hopefully this will be done soon, as it has been underway for a period of time now. But believe this situation will be resolved with us on top.
After seeing this thread, posts, my reply, and whatever else comes of it, I hope it is apparent that the service, dedication, specialization, knowledge, and love for 350Zs and this community in general, along with the in-the-end-better pricing of the Alliance kits will result in the continued support of the soon to be collective efforts of Blackline and Alliance. I truly believe the Alliance kits are a fresh face in the braking world for the Nissan/Infinity line up, and many customers are former Project Mu, Stoptech, and AP customers who have made the switch to Alliance, and they couldn't be happier. These sort of small victories strengthen my thoughts that the Alliance brand is growing, and will soon be a household name around here.
As always, I am here for any questions via PM or here in this thread.
Mike
07-14-2010, 01:37 PM
#29
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mike here haha
Thanks jiggy; its not just that though. The brakes are marked up more than PHATBOY brand () because of the increased costs on our end; we're not getting rich off this, rest assured on that. Sure we make enough to keep the business running, pay the development costs of new kits (i.e. the 370Z and G37, working on S13/S14 kits as we speak, and possibly GTR next), develop and prototype new products such as some titanium products we've been experimenting with, and keep business expenses in check. If this guy lives down the road from a factory, then he is saving the 100 dollars per kit/200 per set just to get the kits, the 300 for customs and import fees which either a customer will pay importing buying from him or we do it, so its all the same in the end.
For example: The most common set up we sell is cheaper from us than from them. Their initial price is less as stated in the thread, but after shipping (~200), import taxes (we'll under estimate and say 250 for import and duty charges + shipping company (UPS/FedEx) brokerage charges that you'll pay importing) , you're already paying more. And on top of this, Alliance and Blackline are merging into one company to provide even better service, combined knowledge in one place, bigger inventories, and all around better service.
Then what? I have a question about installing these newly purchased phatboy kits on my 350Z. Let's call for customer support! Oh wait...We are vendors here on my350z because our company only sells parts for the Z/G community. I've owned three 350Zs, and worked on more Z/Gs than I can shake a stick at. Blackline's owner has owned a 350Z. I'm in the market for my fourth (A black HR, holla if you got one). Sure we have vendor accounts with companies that sell parts for every make and model ever made, and we have full access to these parts. But we stick solely to the Z community, as that is a passion and what we do best. We've bring many great products to this community. We introduced Alliance to this community. We put Bassani systems on the map for the Zs, and continue to be their number one seller of Z systems. Bassani came to us with questions and for feedback on the development of their 370Z kit, because they know we are a go-to source of knowledge.
Ask any of our previous customers about the service I strive to provide on here. Not only am I on here literally 20 hours of the day answering questions (my sleep problems=service for you!), every customer who has ever bought a kit receives a phone call from me, has my cell phone number, and speaks to me personally on a regular basis. Almost all of our potential and current customers text me throughout the day with questions. Even when customers in CA and HI text me at what is 12, 2, 4, or 5AM my time, I reply within 30 minutes, and I have a hoard of customers who will attest to that. The service received with any purchase from Blackline (especially on Alliance kits) is unparalleled on this forum and in any industry if I had to guess.
Ask the owner of this phatboy company what the displacement of a VQ motor is. Ask him which setup he thinks will meet your goals and budget better. Hell, ask him how many doors a 350Z has.
Just because someone is attempting to the Alliance design and factory does not show a flaw or weakness in the quality of the Alliance kits. If someone takes a bottle of Grey Goose and puts their own label on it and calls it 'Big Booty Hos,' does that compromise the quality of the product? There is a pending trademark on the design, shape, and appearance of Alliance kits that will be in effect as soon as the aforementioned merger of Alliance and Blackline occurs. It's a lot of legal paperwork to form a new corporation so hopefully this will be done soon, as it has been underway for a period of time now. But believe this situation will be resolved with us on top.
After seeing this thread, posts, my reply, and whatever else comes of it, I hope it is apparent that the service, dedication, specialization, knowledge, and love for 350Zs and this community in general, along with the in-the-end-better pricing of the Alliance kits will result in the continued support of the soon to be collective efforts of Blackline and Alliance. I truly believe the Alliance kits are a fresh face in the braking world for the Nissan/Infinity line up, and many customers are former Project Mu, Stoptech, and AP customers who have made the switch to Alliance, and they couldn't be happier. These sort of small victories strengthen my thoughts that the Alliance brand is growing, and will soon be a household name around here.
As always, I am here for any questions via PM or here in this thread.
Mike
Thanks jiggy; its not just that though. The brakes are marked up more than PHATBOY brand (
) because of the increased costs on our end; we're not getting rich off this, rest assured on that. Sure we make enough to keep the business running, pay the development costs of new kits (i.e. the 370Z and G37, working on S13/S14 kits as we speak, and possibly GTR next), develop and prototype new products such as some titanium products we've been experimenting with, and keep business expenses in check. If this guy lives down the road from a factory, then he is saving the 100 dollars per kit/200 per set just to get the kits, the 300 for customs and import fees which either a customer will pay importing buying from him or we do it, so its all the same in the end.For example: The most common set up we sell is cheaper from us than from them. Their initial price is less as stated in the thread, but after shipping (~200), import taxes (we'll under estimate and say 250 for import and duty charges + shipping company (UPS/FedEx) brokerage charges that you'll pay importing) , you're already paying more. And on top of this, Alliance and Blackline are merging into one company to provide even better service, combined knowledge in one place, bigger inventories, and all around better service.
Then what? I have a question about installing these newly purchased phatboy kits on my 350Z. Let's call for customer support! Oh wait...We are vendors here on my350z because our company only sells parts for the Z/G community. I've owned three 350Zs, and worked on more Z/Gs than I can shake a stick at. Blackline's owner has owned a 350Z. I'm in the market for my fourth (A black HR, holla if you got one
). Sure we have vendor accounts with companies that sell parts for every make and model ever made, and we have full access to these parts. But we stick solely to the Z community, as that is a passion and what we do best. We've bring many great products to this community. We introduced Alliance to this community. We put Bassani systems on the map for the Zs, and continue to be their number one seller of Z systems. Bassani came to us with questions and for feedback on the development of their 370Z kit, because they know we are a go-to source of knowledge. Ask any of our previous customers about the service I strive to provide on here. Not only am I on here literally 20 hours of the day answering questions (my sleep problems=service for you!), every customer who has ever bought a kit receives a phone call from me, has my cell phone number, and speaks to me personally on a regular basis. Almost all of our potential and current customers text me throughout the day with questions. Even when customers in CA and HI text me at what is 12, 2, 4, or 5AM my time, I reply within 30 minutes, and I have a hoard of customers who will attest to that. The service received with any purchase from Blackline (especially on Alliance kits) is unparalleled on this forum and in any industry if I had to guess.
Ask the owner of this phatboy company what the displacement of a VQ motor is. Ask him which setup he thinks will meet your goals and budget better. Hell, ask him how many doors a 350Z has.
Just because someone is attempting to the Alliance design and factory does not show a flaw or weakness in the quality of the Alliance kits. If someone takes a bottle of Grey Goose and puts their own label on it and calls it 'Big Booty Hos,' does that compromise the quality of the product? There is a pending trademark on the design, shape, and appearance of Alliance kits that will be in effect as soon as the aforementioned merger of Alliance and Blackline occurs. It's a lot of legal paperwork to form a new corporation so hopefully this will be done soon, as it has been underway for a period of time now. But believe this situation will be resolved with us on top.
After seeing this thread, posts, my reply, and whatever else comes of it, I hope it is apparent that the service, dedication, specialization, knowledge, and love for 350Zs and this community in general, along with the in-the-end-better pricing of the Alliance kits will result in the continued support of the soon to be collective efforts of Blackline and Alliance. I truly believe the Alliance kits are a fresh face in the braking world for the Nissan/Infinity line up, and many customers are former Project Mu, Stoptech, and AP customers who have made the switch to Alliance, and they couldn't be happier. These sort of small victories strengthen my thoughts that the Alliance brand is growing, and will soon be a household name around here.
As always, I am here for any questions via PM or here in this thread.
Mike
Props on the customer service, that definitely helps. 90% of the vendors on here cannot claim that. A lot of the post sale support is below par imo. No problem making money by selling products either.
So youre saying you guys will patent the design but only with Alliance logo?
You paid for the development costs and initial construction of the calipers/rotors/kits? Did your supplier just go behind your back and sell to phatboy? Or are you mainly talking about making lines/brackets to adapt existing calipers/rotors to a car?
I would equate this to all the wilwood kits that are sold....only a few legit "factory" kits exist but there are a ton of options for wilwood kits for our cars.
Not a knock off by any means, just utilize the same caliper/rotors as others.
07-14-2010, 02:13 PM
#31
Props on the customer service, that definitely helps. 90% of the vendors on here cannot claim that. A lot of the post sale support is below par imo. No problem making money by selling products either.
So youre saying you guys will patent the design but only with Alliance logo?
You paid for the development costs and initial construction of the calipers/rotors/kits? Did your supplier just go behind your back and sell to phatboy? Or are you mainly talking about making lines/brackets to adapt existing calipers/rotors to a car?
I would equate this to all the wilwood kits that are sold....only a few legit "factory" kits exist but there are a ton of options for wilwood kits for our cars.
Not a knock off by any means, just utilize the same caliper/rotors as others.
So youre saying you guys will patent the design but only with Alliance logo?
You paid for the development costs and initial construction of the calipers/rotors/kits? Did your supplier just go behind your back and sell to phatboy? Or are you mainly talking about making lines/brackets to adapt existing calipers/rotors to a car?
I would equate this to all the wilwood kits that are sold....only a few legit "factory" kits exist but there are a ton of options for wilwood kits for our cars.
Not a knock off by any means, just utilize the same caliper/rotors as others.
More than likely, the factory is free to manufacture brakes for whomever steps forward to setup a wholesale deal. Alliance didnt really "develope" to the extent that you are saying here.
Think of this factory as making blank dinner plates. Then, a company steps in and designs a paint design to go on plate, then gets factory to manufacture the factory's already designed blank plates with this new paint design then ship in bulk to 3rd party company so they can sell them with "their" paint design. Other 3rd party companies do same. Same plates, different paint design. Thats basically what is happening here with Alliance, KSport, Megan, D2, etc.
Another good example of this business method you may know of is Centric Rotors. They make the "blank" rotors for Stoptech, R1Concepts, etc. Then each company designs the details for the rotors like the slotted pattern, drilled pattern, hat coating, etc. Thats why each companies rotors appear different, but the raw rotor comes from the same place.
Just because they manufacture brakes for Alliance, KSport, whoever, doesnt mean they are under any legal obligation to soley produce brakes for that said company as they prob hold multiple wholesale manufacturing contracts.
This business method can be seen almost everywhere, and isnt anything new.
Regardless, Mike has a point on the service end. You know you will get service or replacement parts easily from Blackline, but do you know enough to say the same about Phatboy? The name alone worries me alittle, to be honest.
Last edited by GeauxLadyZ; 07-14-2010 at 02:17 PM.
07-14-2010, 03:04 PM
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So lets say that somebody buys those phatboy big brakes and they need replacement parts, couldn't they just go to Mike? Since it seems that the phatboy brakes are the same thing as Alliance brakes.........just saying.
07-14-2010, 03:24 PM
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1. he didn't sell to you.
2. does not carry the Alliance branding.
Just like he said, there are other factors that go into the brakes once they are produced (finishing touches, importing, etc)
Last edited by FilthyZ; 07-14-2010 at 03:25 PM.
07-14-2010, 03:29 PM
#35
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That's my thinking as well.
That would be like me buying a shirt from a company and trying to return it to a distributor store that doesn't sell the same brand. Why on earth would Mike take back a brake that.
1. he didn't sell to you.
2. does not carry the Alliance branding.
Just like he said, there are other factors that go into the brakes once they are produced (finishing touches, importing, etc)
That would be like me buying a shirt from a company and trying to return it to a distributor store that doesn't sell the same brand. Why on earth would Mike take back a brake that.
1. he didn't sell to you.
2. does not carry the Alliance branding.
Just like he said, there are other factors that go into the brakes once they are produced (finishing touches, importing, etc)
Honestly if a person did that then they deserve to be smacked.
Last edited by 03LeMans350zed; 07-14-2010 at 03:33 PM.
07-14-2010, 05:13 PM
#38
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In the end you are paying the same and most of the times more for less in the end. Even if you were save a few bucks, in the end you'll suffer because your replacement parts are going to go through the same shipping/taxing/brokerage ordeal that come from importing, and your kit is worth less down the road when it is time for resale. I've seen Alliance kits sold used, and we've brokered deals for a used Alliance kit sale, they are fetching almost their entire value new in used sales.
And about the development, that is not entirely true. In the newly released kits especially the 370Z and G37 and the ones in development, we have a majority hand in the development, right up until the machines are fired up and kits produced. We've also tested the kits extensively that have resulted in all the changes to the entire line up of kits recently. This definitely isn't a branding operation; we're fully vested time, knowledge, and financially. All of the changes and increases in quality that phatboy enjoys are most likely a result of our testing and development.
Edit: This may all be a moot point in the end, as the ultimate goal for the Alliance brand by next summer is to proudly sport a 'MADE IN USA' sticker on each monoblock-kit sold. Fingers crossed that the brand will continue to grow to a level that would allow such an operation to be financed!
Last edited by Mike@Blackline; 07-14-2010 at 05:22 PM.
